Silencing Christians

Two TV stations, WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids, MI and WSYX-TV in Columbus, OH, have banned a television special showing how the media is silencing Christians.

What do y'all think about this?

http://www.nmatv.com/video/1180/Silencing-Christians-One-Hour-Special

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by MichaelTh on February 16, 2009 at 3:00pm: I consider the AFA (the American Family Association) a hate group. This is a group that says they are pro-family but only if if fits their model of a family.

What they don't seem to understand is that families come in all forms and shapes.

These people seem to be offended by the very existance of gay Americans.

Its funny when Christians act like they are persecuted by gays when Christians have been persecuting gays for centuries.

I guess they want to be able to label a whole group an abomination (among other choice words they tend to use) and expect them to just be quiet and take it.

Social conservatives are so obsessed with gays and their disdain (or hatred or whatever you want to call it) seems so misplaced. It's too bad so many of them do not want to make positive contributions to society but rather belittle a whole group of people soley on tbe basis of sexual orientation.

I give Kudos to those stations for standing up to the AFA. I give kudos to any group that has stood up to them (such as Proctor and Gamble, Cambell's Soup, and others).

The AFA and James Dobson may speak for some Christians but they sure do not speak for me. Every time I hear James Dobson speak I get sick to my stomach.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dean on February 16, 2009 at 3:26pm: MichaelTh
So...anyone who believes the Bible as it is written is automatically by your standards a hate group. A family comes in all forms and shapes?!? OK, if you won't believe what Father God says, why won't you believe what Mother Nature clearly tells you?

Narrow is the way that leads to life...and few are they that find it. - Jesus

P.S. I understand being in a very militant Liberal educational (anti-Christian) environment for six years probably has had a very strong influence on you, No?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by MichaelTh on February 17, 2009 at 12:51pm: Of course I do not believe those who believe in the Bible are automatically affiliated with a hate group. What I said is that the AFA, in my opinion, is a hate group.

They are among the radicals of the radicals of the religious right. They wage these idiotic "culture wars" against their fellow Americans.

Their disdain against gays and lesbians does rise to the level of hate. They are almost as bad as the Phelps Clan.

This is the same group that cried foul when gay activists started boycotting companies that contributed to Prop 8 in California, but they have been waging boycotts against companies who "support" gays for years.

They had a huge campaign against fictional soap opera couple "Luke and Noah" on CBS's soap opera "As the World Turns". When you are campaigning against a soap opera I think you've put yourself in the "unhinged" category.

They have waged boycotts against Ford Motor Company, Cambell's Soup, and many others.

They have a radical conservative agenda.

The truth is that there are families with two moms or two dads. There are families where a son or a daughter is gay.

These families are just the same as any family and to try to defame these families is beyond disgusting.

Its people like the AFA and their ilk that give evangelicals a bad name. It is why there are sites like this one that allows some of us evangelicals to say "Hey these people don't speak for us."

I don't need a James Dobson or Pat Robertson or any of these people and their groups to tell me how to express my Christianity.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JoshuaChayne on February 17, 2009 at 2:10pm: They are not silencing Christians. They are silencing an extremist group and their propaganda.

Like Michael stated, the American Family Association is a vitriolic anti-gay group. They aren't really pro-family, they are anti-gay family.

They oppose equal rights and protections for gays such as marriage, civil unions, adoption, non-discrimination in the workplace, hate crime protection, and protection from bullying in schools. They oppose openly gay servicemen and women in the armed forces.

They lie about the issues. For example, they falsely equate hate crime laws with hate speech laws.

They have boycotted companies for being pro-gay (such as Disney, Ford, McDonalds, Proctor and Gamble, Campbells Soup, Pepsi etc) yet they criticize gays for boycotting companies that are anti-gay. The AFA themselves want to censor the media and have even had campaigns against gay characters appearing on television shows.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, the leading organization that tracks hate groups, have long criticized groups like the AFA and the Family Research Council for being anti-gay and spreading the propaganda of hate groups.

The American Family Association definitely does NOT represent the Christianity that I subscribe to. They do NOT exemplify the love, compassion, and nonjudgment taught by Jesus.

Homophobia and the resulting prejudice and discrimination are NOT Christian values, in my opinion.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dean on February 17, 2009 at 2:59pm: OK, you guys saw 'AFA' and you didn't watch the video. Are you afraid you might run into some common sense? I guess I understand there are many people who change the Bible to line up with their lifestyle rather than vice versa, so I'm not going to try to help you with that.

I know you have been schooled in how bad the Radical Right Agenda is but you aren't aware of the Militant Homosexual Agenda? The AFA is a response to the aggressive Homosexual Agenda to try and shove homosexuality down the throats of people who believe the lifestyle is immoral. So, that's OK? But if the people who don't share their opinion object they get censored or thrown in jail? Christians rights to free speech and freedom of religion are being violated and you are applauding it. Homosexuals have a right to a parade and to freely express their views and Christians are entitled to express their views, that's America.

They have a woman on the video who is a former lesbian who ministers to people who are having sexual identity issues. Is that hate? It sounds like Love to me. Because my opinion is that that lifestyle is a sin, that is hate? It would be OK if the homosexuals were tolerant of my Christian beliefs but they are not. Therefore I need to fight for my Chrisitian AMERICAN right to freedom of speech and freedom to practice what I believe.

Educate yourself. Watch the video, if you dare.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by MichaelTh on February 17, 2009 at 3:49pm: Dean,

First you make this assumption that there are two groups at odds here: Gays vs. Christians. This is another over simplification. There are gays who practice the Christian faith. To generalize that all gays are not religious or not specifically christian (and are automatically anti-christian) is another mistake.

There are gay Christians (even if that offends some folks). There are even gay christian websites. I would list some of them but I wouldn't want those sites trolled by haters/detractors. There are even gay christian dating sites.

Of course there are gays who go to church. There are even gay folks in ministry.

You speak of this militant homosexual agenda, but that is another right wing talking point. Just because people want to be free from discrimination and prejudice, and want to live their lives openly (instead of hiding who they love and a whole aspect of who they are) does not make them radicals-it makes them .... human.

The radical religious right wants to legislate their brand of morality and they are very open to promoting discrimination in the workplace and other areas.

I will likely never understand the rabid obsessive disdain for gays that comes from radical Christians. It doesn't make sense to me that they try to use a whole group of people as political and social targets.

They target gays with their hate-filled views and opinions and then when gay men and women organize to combat the hate.. the religious right screams even louder (how dare they organize, how dare they speak out against us??).

The religious right can dish it out but they simply can't take it.

Even if some Christians are so opposed to gay relationships why does that have to translate targeting them with laws or waging "culture wars" against them.

Jesus Christ had a message of love and he took up for those that society shunned. He did not intend (IMHO) to create a political message to be used as a political weapon to target minorities.

Today's Christians are so far removed from what Jesus Christ taught and how he lived his life. The true message of Christ has been lost because it has been perverted and nearly destroyed by our present day social conservatives.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dean on February 17, 2009 at 4:16pm: * * * * * * *
Alright. So this discussion was going to be about the video. You really won't watch the video? :(; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JoshuaChayne on February 17, 2009 at 4:21pm: Michael, you are right. Besides there being openly gay Christians and gay affirming churches, there are also many closeted gays in the church.

I know of closeted gays and lesbians that go to church and have a very active role in their church, some of them even teach Sunday school.

Its the pink elephant in the room.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by MichaelTh on February 17, 2009 at 7:03pm: It's also a shame that some gay people may over time develop cold feelings toward the church, christianity, and evangelicals in particular because of the level of hate, prejudice, and general disdain that some conservative christians routinely dish out on gay individuals.

It really makes me sad that the hateful voices of some christians have drowned out the voices of the more liberal christians. People view Christians in a negative light because Christianity has been hi-jacked by some loud radicals who try to paint us all with the same brush.

It's good to know that some of us are beginning to speak up and to use our voice (and use the internet) to say that not all evangelicals bow to the alter of the likes of James Dobson or Ann Coulter or Glenn Beck or any of the numerous hateful Christians that are all over the popular media.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JoshuaChayne on February 17, 2009 at 4:16pm: Militant homosexual agenda? Is that kinda like the radical militant Christianist agenda that the AFA advocates?

Christianist is a term that is now being used for extremist Christians.

In my opinion, it is up to us, the moderate and intellectual Christians, to stand up to the extremist Christianists just as it is up to moderate Muslims to take a stand against the extremist Islamacists.

How is it militant for gay people to want their equal rights and protections that is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?

Gays have to take a stand against the radical religious right because they advocate for denying them their equal rights and sometimes advocate for taking away pre-existing rights from them (such as gay marriage where it was already legal such as CA where 18,000 gay marriages may be nullified or gay adoption in Arkansas).

How are gay rights endangering free speech and freedom of religion? Hate crime laws do not criminalize hate speech. Our 1st Amendment is very robust and we even protect hate speech in America and thats why the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest the funerals of veterans.

Aren't religious groups and ethnic groups already protected by federal hate crime laws so why not protect gays as well?

Gay marriage won't make churches marry gays who disapprove of it. But banning gay marriage does infringe on the freedom of religion of those churches who do approve of and perform gay marriages.

Don't heterosexuals try to force their lifestyles down homosexual's throats?

Why don't groups like the AFA try to ban divorce or adultery as they effect straight marriage much more than gay marriage does.

Also this ex-gay thing is a fraud. They may change their behavior temporarily but they don't change their same sex attractions. Many so called ex-gays have been caught hooking up in gay bars. There are probably just as many ex-ex-gays than there are ex-gays. Most of the so called ex-gays are religious fanatics that make their living off of the ex-gay fraud industry.

The head of the largest ex-gay group, Alan Chambers of Exodus International, admitted to Anderson Cooper on CNN that he still has homosexual attractions. In other interviews he has said that he has to deny his true feelings everyday of his life.

Homosexuality is biological and a part of natural variation. Why don't you educate yourself....

Homosexuality and the hypothalamus..

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n9_v140/ai_11315232

Homosexuality and the amygdala...

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structur...

Homosexuality and the commissure...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=49673

Homosexual sheep have the same differences in hypothalamus that homosexual humans have...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biologi...

Homosexuality and Twins....

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html

Homosexuality and X-Chromosome...

http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1993/806/1

Homosexuality and Birth Order...

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20060626/birth-order-ma...

Homosexuality and the Animal Kingdom...

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

http://www.nhm.uio.no/againstnature/index.html

Homosexuality, fruit flies, genetics, and brain hormones….

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094541.htm; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dean on February 17, 2009 at 6:42pm: Hey, I actually looked at your information! I was expecting a whole lot more than I got. A bunch of inconclusive experiments. Nothing to make me paint my naked body and dance in the streets, or wear black leather chaps.

As far as "hate crimes" you could call them "special rights crimes". Is there any such thing as love crimes? All crimes are hate crimes. Shouldn't the punishment be the same no matter what the motive? (Answer: Yes)

Yes, it is a fallen world and creation is not functioning completely as it was originally designed. You have to go back to its beginning to see what God intended. Or just read the Bible.

Many of your questions would be answered in this informative video. The link is at the top of the page. :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by MichaelTh on February 17, 2009 at 6:59pm: No, I would argue most crimes are not hate crimes. Most crime, and if we are talking about violent crimes like domestic disputes or the majority of murders tend to occur between intimates.

In a hate crime a person isn't just attacking one person but targetting a person based on one of their characterics or their affiliation with some group.

If you attack someone simply because they have red hair then not only did you harm that specific individual but you are also a threat to everyone who has red hair.

It's the same logic with hate crimes.

If someone is killed or hurt because they are gay or because they are a christian then the perp is not only after that person but potentially going to hurt/kill another person because of their characterstic or group affiliation.

Most states have hate crime laws and they protect religious folks like you ane me. Most states, even conservative KY where I live, have hate crime laws that protect gays and lesbians, as well as those who may be targetted because of their color or gender, etc.

Also another important part of Hate Crime laws is that if a person is convicted of a hate crime then that can add to the time that person is behind bars or under court supervision. So its a useful tool I would argue for prosecutors.

That is my two cents on Hate Crime laws.

As Josh pointed out above the social conservatives through the tactic of political framing are equating hate crime laws with speech or thought, saying or implying that certain speech or thoughts by christians are being criminalized (which is beyond absurd).; ▶ Reply to This